S300 for Russian Mobile air defense

It would be great if S300 missile defense will be included in the mod.

It will probably be included in the campaign mode as a non-playable vehicle (or objective), but we aren't including any controllable S300 or other heavier units such as Mobile Scud Launchers or BM-30 Mobile Rocket Launchers.

This is due to the fact that vehicles such as the Russian 2S6 Tunguska Self-Propelled Anti-Aircraft Gun have a generally longer range and effectiveness than any standard ZH SAM defense (and can be upgraded with surface to air missiles for extra punch).

If we included the S300 we would need to include heavier western counterparts such as the MIM-104 Patriot, and that would dramatically diminish the tactical importance of fighters / AA-Armed Infantry and even general surface-to-air units.

Even so, the Europeans and Russians will have units which are effective to spot and engage US Stealth fighters/bombers.

There's Also The S-400

that's a shame I LUVVVVV The BM Family

James100 wrote:There's Also The S-400

Yeah, in fact, the Russians are supposedly developing their even more sophisticated S-500 missile (it's an even more upgraded version of the S-400 ).

James100 wrote:that's a shame I LUVVVVV The BM Family

Yeah, we discussed it a lot, but we decided to use more "mobile" and less bulkier multiple rocket launchers (even so, the current ones, the M270A1 and the TOS-1 are extremely destructive and effective).

There will be various points which will separate all MRL's (Multiple Rocket Launchers), the M270 will have it's own specific and special properties and the TOS-1 will have it's own "specs" as well.

at least one of the campaign missions has to make a BM 30 cameo. just sort of a 'we're getting pwnzord! kill sum BMs!!! ' kind of objective.
or at least some BM-21s. im amazed at how old those things are without being upgraded much. there's plenty of old equiptment in this mod and in real life being used it's just that they all get retrofited. the BM-21 seems unchanged for decades!
they'd make a good mission objective.

Pyrospastiac wrote:at least one of the campaign missions has to make a BM 30 cameo. just sort of a 'we're getting pwnzord! kill sum BMs!!! ' kind of objective.

Oh yeah!!!

The same goes to the sneaky Mobile Scud Launchers, the deadly Topol-M's and possibly some members of the S-300 "family" (great mission objectives for either defense or attack depending on the side of the campaign).

Pyrospastiac wrote:or at least some BM-21s. im amazed at how old those things are without being upgraded much. there's plenty of old equiptment in this mod and in real life being used it's just that they all get retrofited. the BM-21 seems unchanged for decades!
they'd make a good mission objective.

I think that BM-21's might appear as combat-ready units with some Rebel factions alongise many other Cold-War sweetness (Rebel / Militia / Indigenous Factions aren't obviously armed to the same standards as the Main Factions, but they can still provide some lighter support if helped).

If S-300 or S-400 will be put in the game, it should be block by countermeasures of an aircraft. In the ROTR mod they used the S-400, it needs to be deployed before it can release an anti-aircraft missile...low speed mobility..but the bug is it is not block by countermeasure. any anti-aircraft missile can be block by countermeasure depending how many missiles are being release to target aircraft...

Our aircraft will release countermeasures (such as flares) when a missile is locking on it, from there on there's a probability that the missile will hit or miss (random logic).



I even suggested the inclusion of a special "Aircraft Countermeasure System" which would place the control of countermeasures on the player (the player had 3 main "types" of countermeasures, each of'em would be effective against a specific kind of missile), but we eventually put the idea to a halt because of coding complications.

and micromanegment problems.
that'd be so anoying
"oh crap a missiles gonna hit my plane!!! ...ok, let's see... flares? no. chaff? nah. evasive manouveres? eh, maybe. ...ah dammit! my plane died ages ago!"

Too true, in fact, the idea that our infantry should now move in squads rather than single units, is because of micromanagement.

The map zoom is gonna be taken to it's limits (maximum height) and controlling a single soldier from such a distance is kind of a laughable idea.

Squads (along with many ground units) will have overhead icons so the player can diferency'em better from a longer zoom.


About the "Aircraft Countermeasure System" in this case there would be basically 3 different kinds of countermeasures which would be automatically activated once a missile was launched, the evasion effectiveness would be greater if the player had the "right" countermeasure selected (the plane would basically use the selected countermeasure and if that one matched the attacking missile, the evasion ratio would be much higher).

For example, let's say a heat seeking missile was fired against my plane, if it had flares as it's selected countermeasure, the evasion ratio would be much larger than if ECMs (Electric Countermeasure) were equipped.

Basically:

Missile Type / Class	Countermeasure
Infrared Homing Missiles ("Heat-Seeking Missiles")	Flares
Semi-Active Radar Homing	Electronic Countermeasures (ECMs)
Active Radar Homing	Chaff

Basically this was an idea to keep all the standard aerial countermeasures ingame, however it would be very complex to include and so it's halted at this point.

The Flares were the ones which were equipped by default (since heat seeking missiles are the most standard AA missiles in game).

maybe instead of the player making the selection out of all available options, the player buys the different countermeasures, then the pilot's effectiveness in using them depends on their promotion level (and the randomizer of course ). this way players dont have to micromanage with countermeasures, but a rookie pilot would have a very small chance of using the right one compared to a veteran pilot.

Personally I love the idea of making aircraft more interactive, but if there are alot of planes I can see how it could get crazy real fast. Snake I like your idea, and pyro I like yours. The only suggestion I have is if planes are going to need micro managed it would be nice to have the [Ctrl+#] designation, when the # is double tapped to actually follow the plane. I would also say it would be nice to have the aircraft towards the bottom edge of the screen to allow for a line of sight when approaching a target. The only problem I see is when you are on the top of a map heading "south". Inverting the map for players on the top of the screen might fix the problem but I am not sure you can do that. Honestly I like both of your ideas. One is definetly more creative then the other, but it does need more micro management. I think with the right set up it could work fine.

Pyrospastiac wrote:maybe instead of the player making the selection out of all available options, the player buys the different countermeasures, then the pilot's effectiveness in using them depends on their promotion level (and the randomizer of course ). this way players dont have to micromanage with countermeasures, but a rookie pilot would have a very small chance of using the right one compared to a veteran pilot.

Great idea, the main prob would be to establish a connection between the promotion level and kind of countermeasures (we'll have to look into it once we're on the air combat coding stage).

One of the main things that made the countermeasure logic come to a halt was the fact that some missiles (more particularly the Semi-Active Radar Homing missiles won't be very common, if included in the mod at all, thus the urgency of having more countermeasures became less important).

Jarhead wrote:Personally I love the idea of making aircraft more interactive, but if there are alot of planes I can see how it could get crazy real fast. Snake I like your idea, and pyro I like yours. The only suggestion I have is if planes are going to need micro managed it would be nice to have the [Ctrl+#] designation, when the # is double tapped to actually follow the plane. I would also say it would be nice to have the aircraft towards the bottom edge of the screen to allow for a line of sight when approaching a target. The only problem I see is when you are on the top of a map heading "south". Inverting the map for players on the top of the screen might fix the problem but I am not sure you can do that. Honestly I like both of your ideas. One is definetly more creative then the other, but it does need more micro management. I think with the right set up it could work fine.

I would also love to have a button which could follow the plane (Act of War, the game we talked about in the Off Topic section had this feature), once the team starts to focus on air combat and it's coding, we'll look for a way to include new features without the need of adding more "weight" to the controlling player.

We want units to behave "automatically" though still possible to being manually controlled, let's take the A-10 for example.

Once we order it to attack an enemy tank, it'll automatically try to launch a missile and fire it's main cannon, however, the player is able to automatically choose which weapon should be fired independently (like manually selecting the cannon or missiles).

Well, I think that a line has potentially been crossed here. So, let me turn on the rant switch and get to bitchin and complaning for a bit.

While I like the idea of stuffing as much user controllable, realistic technology, on an aircraft, ships, and ground units, there comes a point where too much micromanagement comes into play, and I think the mod is getting close too, if not already over that limit (in theory, of course, since the mods not even been built yet).

From what I'm hearing from this, and other threads, countermeasures may now become the latest in the list of possible things that are going to have to be managed on a per unit basis during the game. You've got to worry about conserving fuel & ammo per unit until you get resupplied (which I'm assuming won't be automatic). Buying & selecting weapons per unit (some units). And now the possibility of worrying about countermeasures on a per unit basis (and god forbid I mention the possibility of having to resupply countermeasures?). With units potentially spread all over the map on top of all of that, it's really starting to sound like a micro-management nightmare.

Now, guys I really like realism and all, that's why I'm here drooling over this mod even before she's even been built. But, unless Snake is willing to fly up here to the United States from Portugal and serve as my logistical officer during the game, the game isn't going to be much of a game at all, but more like real work. I mean even army generals have entire staffs and departments dedicated to work on logistical issues like these. If your asking me do it alone, then I want an easy button installed in the mod: