Uprades for Infantry/Spec Ops + Some other Ideas

Zero Hour Modifications (TAOW?)You guys have done a beautiful job w/vehicles and aircraft thus far, but I would like to focus a little attention on infantry for a moment though. I have been doing a lot of research lately, looking up ideas for upgrading infantry to spec ops. For instance the Army alone has 2 well known spec. forces with slightly different roles. The Green Berets role for instance is to build report with locals, often training them to fight (easy mob/arm the mob mod) producing one manner or another of guerilla warrior's. Often they themselves will dress like natives, such as right now in Afghanistan many are garnishing a beard because that is the native culture. There role in this war is primarily a munitions seeking objective (and they have found ALOT) So besides looking like and training natives getting info on caches is also a specialty (finding buried weapons). (Also think it would be cool to be able to ask locals "have you seen_____." If a native could point in the direction where they saw enemy that would be cool) another added button could be a metal detector to find mines and buried weapon caches. (Using Stealth detection at a very short range.
This is my idea of the perfect Zero Hour mod. Hope you like it.
Infantry
The 3 Levels of Veterancy:
I - Veteran
II - Elite
III - Heroic
{{There are only 3 rank’s to achieve at the moment but I would love to see more, (the actual ranking system of the military would be great) this could also make for an interesting way to upgrade systems/technology by sending highest units out of the field (where they are needed most), back to your base to fill “Tech Positions and Train Future Units”.}}
{Good idea huh.}
The 3 Firing Positions
Standing: Offers least protection, easily targeted by enemy fire
Kneeling: Offers more protection than standing.
Laying down: Most protection, provides very little cross section the for enemy to shoot at.
I’ve heard of a mod that already does this just haven’t played it. Each stance effects damage points to different degrees, I’ll let you figure out which is better or worse for survivability. (so even if somebody gets the drop on you, you can always drop and hope you hit them more than they hit you.)

Injury
When a unit is injured to the point where their health bar is in the red, the bar will continue to slowly go down until they eventually die, unless tended to by a medic. (Medics can only stop the health bar from falling when a unit is “in the red”. Pursue Medivac or other means of transporting soldier back to base to heal.
CIA
CIA Agent: This unit can take on the appearance of other side’s personnel as a “mole”. As a “mole” this unit can be controlled by the opponent just as any other unit of their infantry. Then at then at any given time the unit can be activated and controlled. Carries a silenced PPK or other small caliber weapon to immobilize units. {maybe subtle difference in clothing make the opposing player have to zoom in and look carefully, not detectable by stealth detection}
-Able to capture enemy units to gain intelligence, specifically allowing for production of captured unit upon (or sometime after) returning to “base/Carrier” {that units abilities then apply to your own Army. Future CIA Agents will have the ability to disguise as captured unit.)
To capture a unit you must wound them till they are immobile, no longer able to fight the Agent drags/ carries or enlists vehicle to come pick him and his new pal up. {have seen a mod that allows Burton to carry other units home, probably motorcycle logic}
(!&! this would also be good for medics)
Army
Rangers - - can deploy “decoy tents” that look identical to the {Forward Operations Communication Hub(s), that are integral to the easy management of forward air units, may decide to place with marines}
!@! Abilities
-Building Capture
-Smoke Grenade
-Grenade
Able to Airdrop
Green Berets: Spec Ops unit that is capable of recruiting and training civilian populations. Can mix into a population much like a “combatant’s” (bomb truck logic)
>>>Medics- - Specialty unit that can stop a unit from slowly dying (when a unit has been injured and is displaying a red bar, the bar continues to shrink until unit is dead)
-This units skills can be learned by other soldiers higher up the tech/point tree by sending {{3 veteran/elite/heroic units off the board to “boot camps” where other forces can be trained the medics unique skills}} to varying effect depending on instructing medics rank.
{{honestly I think to truly heal a soldier they should be sent off the board for recovery (then comeback possibly as veteran, though I am not against the idea of long recovery time or even field medical tents.)
Engineer: (lots of possibility)
Navy
SEALS- - Able to deploy by sea, air or land( not really by land ~ @least not in NAVAL mode)
Initially SEALs are only capable of being airlifted in or swimming ashore (unless provided an already existing amphibious vehicle.)(should be somewhat high on tech tree)
!@! Abilities include
-Building capture
-Grenade {rifle mounted grenade launcher)
-Smoke Grenade
-Demo Charge {Timed & Remote)
-*Stealth Movement {Elite) (gain of stealth for temporary reduction in speed)
-*Knife Attack {Heroic)
!$! Upgrades include (but are not limited to):
-SALH system (laser guidance used in combination with aircraft’s munitions)
-Rebreather (allows SEALs to stay submerged while swimming, Stealth)
-DSRV (faster than swimming, more stealthy than zodiac, possibly able to board
Subs from other factions with this vehicle, if subs are set to be micro managed)
Deploy via submarine swim ashore or deploy zodiac inflatable for faster delivery.
!$! Deploy via HALO Drops (High Altitude Low Opening parachute drop) (No aircraft on screen to be shot down, unless zoom out is very extreme)

Sniper teams: A sniper team consists of 2 main elements. The Sniper and the Spotter.
The (SEAL team) Sniper is a unit capable of killing an enemy infantry unit from long distances with a single shot. {SEAL snipers can swim}
-With the aid of the “Stealth Movement“ button the SEAL team sniper is able to reduce his rate of movement in return he remains camouflaged while moving
The Spotter is an infantry unit that in part serves the purpose of a “Sentry Drone” in the original Zerohour, alerting you if an enemy presence is in his field of view. This unit is armed with a standard issue assault rifle w/grenade launcher {When enough General points have been accumulated it is possible to upgrade his weapons system, arming him with a SALH laser guidance system. This gives him the ability to “paint” a target for inbound aircraft (auto prompted). The laser beam it’s self is invisible to enemy, however they might wonder why there is a glaring red dot on their vehicle. {SEAL Spotters can also swim}
-this unit may also use the “Stealth Movement” button.
{{Might consider integration into full SEAL teams, but I kinda like it this way too}}

DSRV
Destroyers
Frigates
Cruisers
Carrier
Aircraft

Submarines-very high on “tech tree/point system”
“Los Angeles” Class hunter killer
Main armament: Torpedos
Also capable of deploying seal teams on: zodiacs or DSRV type mini subs
“Trident” Ballistic Missile Submarine “(SUPERWEAPON) (which I know is a dirty word around
here but it dosen’t have to be, power can be made to represent price or not. Just plain sounds like fun. Because of the restrains of the boards size maybe this unit can only fire 1 missle at a time, needs good amount of time to charge, extremely high on the tech tree.)
!@! Abilities (maybe)
-bottom the boat (Sub will go to the sea bottom where it will remain motionless and undetectable by anti-sub aircraft but not by other subs, cannot receive messages such as fire missles until it has made periscope depth, also when bottomed there is no timer to tell you when it is ready)(high micromanagement)

Marines
Marine: very hardy soldier, carries a lot of gear hence is slower than the average infantry.
Expeditionary Force: Like Rangers they can go anywhere, but are hardier and carry less gear than their marine counterpart (+speed upgrade). W/upgrade Can be airdropped along with specified # of tanks or Expeditionary Fighting Vehicles.
!@! Abilities
Marine Snipers (simply hardier than SEAL snipers, cannot swim or plant explosives)
Airforce
Pilots- -{Send 3 (or other specified # of) veteran pilots to “Top Gun” to become instructors. They will then produce either veteran pilots, or maybe better land based evasion skills for when newer pilots are shot down} {Not sure if you guys can mess around with aircraft maneuverability or not)
-{This unit should at least have a pistol I mean come on; actual pilots used to carry a Henry US .22 survival rifle besides side arm, not sure if they do anymore but it definitely can’t hurt.}
Start with pistol
.22 survival rifle
Evasion skills (speed, stealth
Reconnaissance Aircraft
U-2
SR-71 Blackbird {{who dosen’t like the Blackbird?}}
(just another reason to make satellites very high on the tech tree)
Heavy lift aircraft/(Mid Air Refueling?)
C-130 Hercules (possible operations command?)
(can land on any patch of flat ground if landing strip (“build”) will allow it to fit, armor drops, troop drops, all around sturdy aircraft good for hot LZ’s) {JPADS is also interesting to look into}
{*KC-130J -Airial refueling of aircraft and helicopters; extremely optional}
{*KC-135 Stratotanker: also not likely, but to be considered}
C-17 Globemaster III
C-5 Galaxy
VC-25A “Airforce One”
(would be nice if the board could scroll, protect the president “air” challenge w/high view point)

Special Forces, (not sure which branch) able to stay conceiled with special button that allows for very slow movement.
Smoke grenades can be used in open fields in place of stealth
Better game controls. Such as bookmarks for zooming in and out, actual tool.
Nearly all vehicles can be controlled by any unit of one’s own army. A vehicle cannot move without a driver. All units can exit any vehicle. Drivers rank applies to vehicle. (In real life I’ve never seen a Humvee that had a rank.) (use civilian building logic)
Munitions supplies (airdrop): needed to arm guerillas
Bags and Boxes: Some upgrades such as Special Weapons can be airdropped to awaiting soldiers. If unclaimed they can be used by the enemy.
!$! Some upgrades
-Better Guns
-SALH system
-Better munitions
Russian Units
KGB/ GRU agent: (Spook) Counterpart to the CIA agent is the Russian. A chameleon in civilian crowds or even behind enemy lines.
Russian Navy
Alpha Class hunter/killer
Typhoon Class Ballistic Missile Submarine (limited firing capabilities to suit game conditions)
{Both ceseptable to P-8 airborne attack}
Russian Airforce
Transport
Russian AN-124 Condor
Russian AN-225 Cossack

GLA
Civilian- - Unit can point in direction of where the enemy was last seen when “asked” by certain special forces. (Many different looking units looking for variety.)
Combatant - - looks like a civilian, hides AK-47 (whatever model) in clothes.
Terrorist- - looks like civilian, can detonate a bomb killing himself and people around him.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Some more “ify” ideas
Mexican Sweat Match
Build your army in peace until it is time to dance. Then with each not knowing what the other team is holding head into the field @ specified time. {Budgeted amount of money}
(Wonder if it could be possible to scroll to adjacent boards?
When a unit gets into the red they are combat ineffective and will automatically lay down (making them harder to shoot) and wait for med attention, or (in special cases such as marines will fight to death unless instructed otherwise.)
Alternative energies, such as Hydro electric plants preexisting on the board that can be captured for ample amounts of energy for {Forward Operations Communications Hub.) {Aids in tech tree} (Built by engineer)
Weather conditions effect battle conditions
What happened to the dogs of red alert (perhaps they can serve some functions other than running up a ripping a man’s throat out?
A level of realism could be achieved by being able to chart out a units course and mission with the waypoints function.
Each encounter showing the evolution of technology with the appearance of craftier weapons.
{Moding of zodiac could allow for GLA counterpart in which terrorists can occupy and attack ships (like the USS Cole incident)
[cannot see the other person’s life bar]
Condition effective units. Meaning certain units are better equipped/prepared dependant on battle conditions.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Also found Kamikazi idea.

I reserve the right to comment on this extremely long post of multiple multiple ideas until tomorrow sometime, since currently my brain is not firing on all cyliders.



'nite everyone.

Good night

By the way Jarhead, I'm responding to this post as I speak, I'll be replying to the other ones as well

Jarhead wrote:So besides looking like and training natives getting info on caches is also a specialty (finding buried weapons). (Also think it would be cool to be able to ask locals "have you seen_____." If a native could point in the direction where they saw enemy that would be cool) another added button could be a metal detector to find mines and buried weapon caches. (Using Stealth detection at a very short range.
This is my idea of the perfect Zero Hour mod. Hope you like it.

In the civilian case (to ask'em for extra intel), I think it would be possible, but only as a campaign objective (I'm afraid we couldn't include it on a standard skirmish, or at least it would have to be heavily coded).

The Mine Detector idea is on hold at this point, if we include large scale "mining", then we might as well have specialized infantry for finding and possibly disarming a minefield, if so, the main unit will most likely be a Combat Sapper or an Engineer).

Jarhead wrote:
Infantry
The 3 Levels of Veterancy:
I - Veteran
II - Elite
III - Heroic
{{There are only 3 rank’s to achieve at the moment but I would love to see more, (the actual ranking system of the military would be great) this could also make for an interesting way to upgrade systems/technology by sending highest units out of the field (where they are needed most), back to your base to fill “Tech Positions and Train Future Units”.}}
{Good idea huh.}

Yeah, I would also love to have several extra ranks (instead of the current 3) by augmenting the number of maximum ranks, unfortunately, some hard-coding issues (logics which are heavily "encrusted"/fused in the game code) might prevent us to do so (even though we still remember this idea and will try to modify the original 3 rank system).

About bases and training units in game (via barracks, etc.) we will completely remove the base system and all soldiers and hardware (vehicles, gear) will come from outside (via airdrop for example) to keep realism to it's peak (and to innovate ZH's building system and for certain "high-end rewards" on the technical level).

Jarhead wrote:
The 3 Firing Positions
Standing: Offers least protection, easily targeted by enemy fire
Kneeling: Offers more protection than standing.
Laying down: Most protection, provides very little cross section the for enemy to shoot at.
I’ve heard of a mod that already does this just haven’t played it. Each stance effects damage points to different degrees, I’ll let you figure out which is better or worse for survivability. (so even if somebody gets the drop on you, you can always drop and hope you hit them more than they hit you.)

Yeah, infantry in TAOW can either stand up or going into prone position.

The main difference at first is moving speed obviously (a standing unit can run and therefore move much farther) however, a soldier in prone position is much more stealthier and can achieve a high hit ratio, basically:

Stance:	Pros:	Cons:
Standing	Speed / Agility	Easily Revealed / Easily Targeted / Less Accuracy
Prone	Stealthy / Enhanced Accuracy	Slower Speed / Can't use certain weapons

Weapons like Missile/Rocket Launchers can't be used by a prone unit, however, some units can excel when laying down, specially Snipers (extreme accuracy), Support Gunners (much steadier position to fire the machine gun (by using a bipod) and covering a large area with suppressive/covering fire) among others.

The Randomizer (a revolutionary logic which we're using to maximum extent) will be very important to determine the damage done by a unit and their accuracy (instead of the "formulaic locked damage" which is always the same in Zero Hour, for example when a tank hits another tank, there's always the same amount damage, in TAOW things won't work this way, damage can be higher or lighter depending on the circumstances).

Jarhead wrote:Injury
When a unit is injured to the point where their health bar is in the red, the bar will continue to slowly go down until they eventually die, unless tended to by a medic. (Medics can only stop the health bar from falling when a unit is “in the red”. Pursue Medivac or other means of transporting soldier back to base to heal.

Actually, we're pursuing a similar concept (which includes your injury idea).

In theory, a soldier could get "critically wounded" if his health gets too low (in the "red area" of the health bar), if not assisted by a medic, ambulance, etc. the soldier would eventually die. In this state the enemy infantry could capture the soldier and retrieve some intel and earn some extra Reinforcement Points (RP - kinda like TAOW's "currency").

It's still a highly experimental idea though (it'll all depend on the coding).

Jarhead wrote:CIA
CIA Agent: This unit can take on the appearance of other side’s personnel as a “mole”. As a “mole” this unit can be controlled by the opponent just as any other unit of their infantry. Then at then at any given time the unit can be activated and controlled. Carries a silenced PPK or other small caliber weapon to immobilize units. {maybe subtle difference in clothing make the opposing player have to zoom in and look carefully, not detectable by stealth detection}
-Able to capture enemy units to gain intelligence, specifically allowing for production of captured unit upon (or sometime after) returning to “base/Carrier” {that units abilities then apply to your own Army. Future CIA Agents will have the ability to disguise as captured unit.)
To capture a unit you must wound them till they are immobile, no longer able to fight the Agent drags/ carries or enlists vehicle to come pick him and his new pal up. {have seen a mod that allows Burton to carry other units home, probably motorcycle logic}
(!&! this would also be good for medics)

Great idea, but I'm not sure if we'll have controllable 'spooks' in the mod, CIA Agents (and most probably the extremely trained and secretive CIA SAS - Special Activities Division - Paramilitaries, which might appear during the campaign).

The "carrying" idea sounds great, medics can probably make a very great use of that logic (like a team of medics taking a critical soldier on a stretcher to a safer location).

Jarhead wrote:
Army
Rangers - - can deploy “decoy tents” that look identical to the {Forward Operations Communication Hub(s), that are integral to the easy management of forward air units, may decide to place with marines}
!@! Abilities
-Building Capture
-Smoke Grenade
-Grenade
Able to Airdrop
Green Berets: Spec Ops unit that is capable of recruiting and training civilian populations. Can mix into a population much like a “combatant’s” (bomb truck logic)
>>>Medics- - Specialty unit that can stop a unit from slowly dying (when a unit has been injured and is displaying a red bar, the bar continues to shrink until unit is dead)
-This units skills can be learned by other soldiers higher up the tech/point tree by sending {{3 veteran/elite/heroic units off the board to “boot camps” where other forces can be trained the medics unique skills}} to varying effect depending on instructing medics rank.
{{honestly I think to truly heal a soldier they should be sent off the board for recovery (then comeback possibly as veteran, though I am not against the idea of long recovery time or even field medical tents.)
Engineer: (lots of possibility)
Navy
SEALS- - Able to deploy by sea, air or land( not really by land ~ @least not in NAVAL mode)
Initially SEALs are only capable of being airlifted in or swimming ashore (unless provided an already existing amphibious vehicle.)(should be somewhat high on tech tree)
!@! Abilities include
-Building capture
-Grenade {rifle mounted grenade launcher)
-Smoke Grenade
-Demo Charge {Timed & Remote)
-*Stealth Movement {Elite) (gain of stealth for temporary reduction in speed)
-*Knife Attack {Heroic)
!$! Upgrades include (but are not limited to):
-SALH system (laser guidance used in combination with aircraft’s munitions)
-Rebreather (allows SEALs to stay submerged while swimming, Stealth)
-DSRV (faster than swimming, more stealthy than zodiac, possibly able to board
Subs from other factions with this vehicle, if subs are set to be micro managed)
Deploy via submarine swim ashore or deploy zodiac inflatable for faster delivery.
!$! Deploy via HALO Drops (High Altitude Low Opening parachute drop) (No aircraft on screen to be shot down, unless zoom out is very extreme)

Sniper teams: A sniper team consists of 2 main elements. The Sniper and the Spotter.
The (SEAL team) Sniper is a unit capable of killing an enemy infantry unit from long distances with a single shot. {SEAL snipers can swim}
-With the aid of the “Stealth Movement“ button the SEAL team sniper is able to reduce his rate of movement in return he remains camouflaged while moving
The Spotter is an infantry unit that in part serves the purpose of a “Sentry Drone” in the original Zerohour, alerting you if an enemy presence is in his field of view. This unit is armed with a standard issue assault rifle w/grenade launcher {When enough General points have been accumulated it is possible to upgrade his weapons system, arming him with a SALH laser guidance system. This gives him the ability to “paint” a target for inbound aircraft (auto prompted). The laser beam it’s self is invisible to enemy, however they might wonder why there is a glaring red dot on their vehicle. {SEAL Spotters can also swim}
-this unit may also use the “Stealth Movement” button.
{{Might consider integration into full SEAL teams, but I kinda like it this way too}}

The Rangers are an air deployed US Elite force and will be equipped with that gear (Smoke Grenades, Grenades - possibly both hand and 40mm gl-launched grenades).
The Green Berets can possibly (hopefully) get information and blend in with the population during the campaign mode. Some will be fully armed with tactical gear and equipment (assault infantry).

The Medics will hopefully perform the roles which I've listed previously (plus they can revive infantry) and will be lightly armed (assault rifle).

US Navy SEALs, special US Navy elite infantry included in the Naval Mode (just like all US Military Spec Ops included in TAOW, SEAL's have their own specific classes, ranging from demolitions to sharpshooting among several other roles. (I also proposed we had some mini-subs, but the idea is on hold due to coding reasons).

There will be several Sniper Classes, some will have their own "special abilities" (like, hopefully, the SEAL's swimming ability).

In fact, players in TAOW won't control individual infantry units, all units will be part of a team or squad (for extra information please check this following thread:
https://taow.forumotion.com/member-s-access-f5/the-official-infantry-topic-of-the-art-of-war-t121.htm ).

That means that players can control several man teams like a single unit (for example, the "Sniper" is now a sharpshooter along with a spotter, the "Javelin AT Missile Unit" one carries soldier carries the launcher, the other carries a light weapon for defense and extra ammo).

About stealth units, an infantry unit can be stealthed when usually goes into a lower position (like prone position) and hopefully by using the map (like using the grass to hide).

About the spotter, well one will be part of the sniper team, another similar unit is the Scout (infantry dedicated for recon duties rather than fighting).

The DSRV may be included, the others:

Destroyers
Frigates
Cruisers
Carrier
Aircraft

...will be included.

About subs, well, it's the same coding question.

If we include subs, then the Los Angeles will be the "standard" sub for the US Navy, the ultimate US sub would be the either the advanced Seawolf Class (SSN-21) or the newer Virginia Class (SSN-774 class)

The "bottom the ship/sub" idea is pretty cool

About Marines, Marines are the "Naval Infantry" and therefore will have many different classes. Note that Marine Force Recon may appear as a Special Operations team.

I'll continue on the next reply.

Jarhead wrote:
Airforce
Pilots- -{Send 3 (or other specified # of) veteran pilots to “Top Gun” to become instructors. They will then produce either veteran pilots, or maybe better land based evasion skills for when newer pilots are shot down} {Not sure if you guys can mess around with aircraft maneuverability or not)
-{This unit should at least have a pistol I mean come on; actual pilots used to carry a Henry US .22 survival rifle besides side arm, not sure if they do anymore but it definitely can’t hurt.}
Start with pistol
.22 survival rifle
Evasion skills (speed, stealth

Pilots will be armed with (at least) a handgun for self defense.

About the air power, just like the other units, planes will come from "outside the map", except for two major exceptions:

- Capturable Airfields / Airports (certain planes can land and refuel and rearm in real time);
- Aircraft Carrier / Amphibious Assault Ships (Naval Mode).

Normally, let's say you call in an A-10, the plane will be called in from a special command vehicle (dedicated for air control) and can be directly controlled by the player once it is "in game", the plane will leave the area if fuel is low or if all the weapons are "dry" (all the weapons and ammo used up) and will be able to return after a set period of time.

Jarhead wrote:Reconnaissance Aircraft
U-2
SR-71 Blackbird {{who dosen’t like the Blackbird?}}
(just another reason to make satellites very high on the tech tree)
Heavy lift aircraft/(Mid Air Refueling?)
C-130 Hercules (possible operations command?)
(can land on any patch of flat ground if landing strip (“build”) will allow it to fit, armor drops, troop drops, all around sturdy aircraft good for hot LZ’s) {JPADS is also interesting to look into}
{*KC-130J -Airial refueling of aircraft and helicopters; extremely optional}
{*KC-135 Stratotanker: also not likely, but to be considered}
C-17 Globemaster III
C-5 Galaxy
VC-25A “Airforce One”
(would be nice if the board could scroll, protect the president “air” challenge w/high view point)

The U-2 may be included in game (it'll all depend on the UAV - Unmanned Aerial Vehicles - role, which will be BIG in the mod).

We love the Blackbird but to keep realism I'm afraid it won't be included

The C-130J Super Hercules will be the standard US Medium transport aircraft (US players will use them a lot to deliver all kinds of units, vehicles and goods).
JPADS is a standard (many units will be delivered that way).

The KC-135 Stratotanker may be included (if certain coding issues are "resolved"), it'll most likely appear during the Campaign mode as a non controllable unit.

The C-17 Globemaster III is the standard US Heavy Airlifter, it'll bring in many of the tanks and heavier armor/heavy wight units.

The C-5 Galaxy will most likely be included as a C-17 "sidekick".

VC-25A, may be included in the campaign mode as a non-controllable unit.

Jarhead wrote:(would be nice if the board could scroll, protect the president “air” challenge w/high view point)

That would be a pretty cool "special challenge" or a special "Game Mode"

Jarhead wrote:
Special Forces, (not sure which branch) able to stay conceiled with special button that allows for very slow movement.

By using the "Prone" button, spec ops, just like most infantry are able to hide much better (at the cost of slower speed).

Jarhead wrote:Smoke grenades can be used in open fields in place of stealth

Smoke Grenades can be used to cover a certain area (a unit "engulfed" by the smoke becomes stealth), the smoke eventually dissipates after a short amount of time, smoke grenades may be launched as hand grenades or as a special type of 40mm grenade (launched via underslung grenade launcher or MGL - Multiple Grenade Launcher upgrade).

Jarhead wrote:Better game controls. Such as bookmarks for zooming in and out, actual tool.

The zoom will be taken to it's limit, planes, for example, won't fly/attack at such low altitudes (I mean, a B-52 dropping a fuel-air-bomb at that height?)

Jarhead wrote:Nearly all vehicles can be controlled by any unit of one’s own army. A vehicle cannot move without a driver. All units can exit any vehicle. Drivers rank applies to vehicle. (In real life I’ve never seen a Humvee that had a rank.) (use civilian building logic)

We also thought of that, but we had some serious trouble with some cases (since we won't be using buildings or base building, this system would make things very complicated on a certain level).

Jarhead wrote:Munitions supplies (airdrop): needed to arm guerillas
Bags and Boxes: Some upgrades such as Special Weapons can be airdropped to awaiting soldiers. If unclaimed they can be used by the enemy.
!$! Some upgrades
-Better Guns
-SALH system
-Better munitions

We may use planes such as the C-130J as very versatile units which may be able to drop many kinds of supplies (probably).

Jarhead wrote:Russian Units
KGB/ GRU agent: (Spook) Counterpart to the CIA agent is the Russian. A chameleon in civilian crowds or even behind enemy lines.
Russian Navy
Alpha Class hunter/killer
Typhoon Class Ballistic Missile Submarine (limited firing capabilities to suit game conditions)
{Both ceseptable to P-8 airborne attack}
Russian Airforce
Transport
Russian AN-124 Condor
Russian AN-225 Cossack

Great suggestions, and I'd say that some of those will be included (and the subs if we include'em, I mean, everyone loves the world's largest sub class, the Akula / "Typhoon").

Jarhead wrote:GLA
Civilian- - Unit can point in direction of where the enemy was last seen when “asked” by certain special forces. (Many different looking units looking for variety.)
Combatant - - looks like a civilian, hides AK-47 (whatever model) in clothes.
Terrorist- - looks like civilian, can detonate a bomb killing himself and people around him.

The GLA won't be included (TAOW won't happen in the same "universe" as ZH).

Jarhead wrote:Some more “ify” ideas
Mexican Sweat Match
Build your army in peace until it is time to dance. Then with each not knowing what the other team is holding head into the field @ specified time. {Budgeted amount of money}

Interesting Game Mode , sounds pretty fun and interesting.

Jarhead wrote:(Wonder if it could be possible to scroll to adjacent boards?
When a unit gets into the red they are combat ineffective and will automatically lay down (making them harder to shoot) and wait for med attention, or (in special cases such as marines will fight to death unless instructed otherwise.)
Alternative energies, such as Hydro electric plants preexisting on the board that can be captured for ample amounts of energy for {Forward Operations Communications Hub.) {Aids in tech tree} (Built by engineer)

Sounds very interesting, but we won't use bases, if we include buildings like Forward Operations Communications Hub, these will be "tech buildings" and will be "capturables" (much like the Airport).

Jarhead wrote:Weather conditions effect battle conditions

It would be fantastic if we could make weather influence battles, but I'm afraid that would require a dedicated system (something which would needed to be included when the game was built, even with heavy modding and coding, it would be near-impossible to make full use of it though the idea is excellent .

Jarhead wrote:What happened to the dogs of red alert (perhaps they can serve some functions other than running up a ripping a man’s throat out?

Well, dogs are kinda "exotic" for TAOW (plus the closest "dogs" I've seen in a ZH mod looked like hogs ).

There are many roles for dogs on the battlefield, during WW2 the Soviets trained bomb dogs which in theory would get under german tanks and were blown up, BUT they trained those dogs on Soviet tanks... *cough* Ironic.

Jarhead wrote:A level of realism could be achieved by being able to chart out a units course and mission with the waypoints function.

Well, in fact I think the waypoint system would be way cooler like in Red Alert 2 (we could establish patrols, etc. Unfortunately, ZH's system won't work that way (a shame since the RA2 system was almost perfect).

Jarhead wrote:Each encounter showing the evolution of technology with the appearance of craftier weapons.

That will happen during the battle, as the player starts to unlock more advanced units.

Jarhead wrote:{Moding of zodiac could allow for GLA counterpart in which terrorists can occupy and attack ships (like the USS Cole incident)
[cannot see the other person’s life bar]
Condition effective units. Meaning certain units are better equipped/prepared dependant on battle conditions.

Well, one of TAOW's main aims is to create a more "condition-dependent" battlefield, meaning that players may want to use the terrain and situation for their advantage (for example, flanking an enemy position among others).

Jarhead wrote:Also found Kamikazi idea.

Just like dogs, suicidals / kamikazes are too "emo", I mean "exotic" for TAOW
Just kidding , we might "throw in" a suicidal or two just for the heck of it (to add more drama and explosions to the action , if so, these "dedicated delivery units" will be part of the rebels (God I love a good black comedy / dark humor ).

The "Rebels" which were mentioned earlier are sort of a "special faction" (non-playable), these have old and outdated gear but can be helped as a secondary objective (rewarding the player with enemy intel and to start an alliance with the local rebel populations).

Others may include Militia, Insurgents, etc. (some may be friendly, some may attack on sight).
Armament consists mainly of old school weapons and vehicles (mainly ex-Soviet hardware like older RPG's, some old tanks, AK-47's, etc.).

They can't stand against any of the main factions, but may be able to give the player some precious aid.

Snake wrote:

Jarhead wrote:
Airforce
Pilots- -{Send 3 (or other specified # of) veteran pilots to “Top Gun” to become instructors. They will then produce either veteran pilots, or maybe better land based evasion skills for when newer pilots are shot down} {Not sure if you guys can mess around with aircraft maneuverability or not)
-{This unit should at least have a pistol I mean come on; actual pilots used to carry a Henry US .22 survival rifle besides side arm, not sure if they do anymore but it definitely can’t hurt.}
Start with pistol
.22 survival rifle
Evasion skills (speed, stealth

Pilots will be armed with (at least) a handgun for self defense. ...

OMG, finally! Modders that understand that these guys actually carry sidearms, and are willing to put that fact into their mod... I think I'm gonna faint!

Now, how about some sort (or version of) stealth since these guys are specially trained in survival techniques. (i.e. Specifically to hide from the enemy until the guys in the fancy choppers, with their fancy weapons, come to extract their a$$es)

Snake wrote:About the air power, just like the other units, planes will come from "outside the map", except for two major exceptions:

- Capturable Airfields / Airports (certain planes can land and refuel and rearm in real time);
- Aircraft Carrier / Amphibious Assault Ships (Naval Mode).

Gulp...

You mean that the Amphibious Assault Ships are only going to be in the Naval mode only?

Snake wrote:

Jarhead wrote:(would be nice if the board could scroll, protect the president “air” challenge w/high view point)

That would be a pretty cool "special challenge" or a special "Game Mode"

That's an interesting idea.

Snake wrote:

Jarhead wrote:Better game controls. Such as bookmarks for zooming in and out, actual tool.

The zoom will be taken to it's limit, planes, for example, won't fly/attack at such low altitudes (I mean, a B-52 dropping a fuel-air-bomb at that height?)

Along the lines of bookmarks. I would like to make a suggestion here. No, let me rephrase that and say that I'm down on my knees here begging that the feature that I'm about to suggest be put into play.

You know how in the game while playing online you can drop beacons to let your team mates know about, certain places such as tech items are located here, and certain things are happening over there, on the map.

Well in skirmish mode I really could use the same beacons for the same reasons mentioned above. My memory is like crap, and I could really use the help. It would make things so much easier. While I'm scrolling my way around the map, or following my recon vehicle/aircraft, if I see a tech structure, or some other interesting site such as a choke point, for example. Then BAM, I can becon it and move on.

It sure beats trying to remember where on the tiny little radar map that point of interst was. And usually when you think you know where it was on the radar map, but you click slightly off the mark and end up scrolling aimlessly around a couple of screens to find the point you were originally looking for. It's just maddening. The idea of beacons would resolve that issue.

Snake wrote:

Jarhead wrote:GLA
Civilian- - Unit can point in direction of where the enemy was last seen when “asked” by certain special forces. (Many different looking units looking for variety.)
Combatant - - looks like a civilian, hides AK-47 (whatever model) in clothes.
Terrorist- - looks like civilian, can detonate a bomb killing himself and people around him.

The GLA won't be included (TAOW won't happen in the same "universe" as ZH).

Yes. About that. The U.S. and the E.U. are technically allies in your "universe", sorta like Ying and Yang, yes?

So, Russia is in the mod. But who's their ally, or their Yang? Is China still in the mods mix? Or will Russia have another Yang on the axis of evil to even things up?

I like the idea of playing US & EU vs. Russia & ally on 4 (or more) player maps.

Snake wrote:

Jarhead wrote:Some more “ify” ideas
Mexican Sweat Match
Build your army in peace until it is time to dance. Then with each not knowing what the other team is holding head into the field @ specified time. {Budgeted amount of money}

Interesting Game Mode , sounds pretty fun and interesting.

I saw a couple of map makers do a couple of maps for ZH that had a river that split the map in two, when the time was right the water receded showing several land paths crossing the river allowing units to cross. They were fun maps. My only regret was though that they didn't include a city on each side of the "bridges", so that you could garrison a bunch of infantry inside prior to the water going down. It would have been interesting to fight through the city first before reaching your opponent, instead of just having an armor vs. armor slug fest.

Snake wrote:

Jarhead wrote:Weather conditions effect battle conditions

It would be fantastic if we could make weather influence battles, but I'm afraid that would require a dedicated system (something which would needed to be included when the game was built, even with heavy modding and coding, it would be near-impossible to make full use of it though the idea is excellent .

I've got some news for you on that front. Project Raptor version 8.0 was suppose to include a weather system that was to have effects on the battlefield. The mods creator perfected it. He made an early alpha version of Project Raptor 8.0 called PR 8.0 alpha, which included some of the mods new units, which I beta tested. The PR 8.0 beta was going to have the weather effects included in it.

Sadly, due to multiple personal reasons which I'm not going to get into, the mods creator, and sole full time modder, put the mod on to the back burner, and it is feared that the mod is gone forever. It's been quite a while now since we've heard from him.

Anyway, I have an e-mail addy in my address book. I'll PM you the addy, either today or tomorrow, and you can try to contact him to see if you can get a hold of the coding or not.

Snake wrote:

Jarhead wrote:What happened to the dogs of red alert (perhaps they can serve some functions other than running up a ripping a man’s throat out?

Well, dogs are kinda "exotic" for TAOW (plus the closest "dogs" I've seen in a ZH mod looked like hogs ).

There are many roles for dogs on the battlefield, during WW2 the Soviets trained bomb dogs which in theory would get under german tanks and were blown up, BUT they trained those dogs on Soviet tanks... *cough* Ironic.

Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!

I have alot to ad/refine from my first post, but right now I just want to say how glad I am you guys aren't just throwing like 5 guns on a tank, or upgrading non existant units. You guys are stuck on realism like a pit bull on a cat burgler. Love it!

i have a great idea

u have to put squadleader into the infantry buildung

then they were the black glasse(like the pic in the reckler weapon)

it will be cool if they can give orders (like in bf2 with smoke grenades)

and the soldiers must be very very realstic like the real soldier with real faces

Tusker2Zero wrote:OMG, finally! Modders that understand that these guys actually carry sidearms, and are willing to put that fact into their mod... I think I'm gonna faint!

Now, how about some sort (or version of) stealth since these guys are specially trained in survival techniques. (i.e. Specifically to hide from the enemy until the guys in the fancy choppers, with their fancy weapons, come to extract their a$$es)

In some cases I'd say we would like to equip pilots with automatic weapons like the MP7A1 PDW (Personal Defense Weapon) for the EU Pilots:



TAOW pilots won't be like those "pilots" from ZH (ZH pilots are as slow as a walrus, completely unrealistic). In addition to carrying PDW's, pilots are much more agile and will hopefully be able to move like standard infantry (like going prone to avoid detection) till the cavalry arrives.

I think that pilots will be ejected randomly (since not every pilot can eject sometimes, the randomizer may help on that).

Tusker2Zero wrote:Gulp...

You mean that the Amphibious Assault Ships are only going to be in the Naval mode only?

Yeah, at least as directly controlled units, I think it may be used on some standard skirmishes, but it won't be the center of the action.

During the campaign mode, AAS's will be used in many cases (and will be very important).

Tusker2Zero wrote:Along the lines of bookmarks. I would like to make a suggestion here. No, let me rephrase that and say that I'm down on my knees here begging that the feature that I'm about to suggest be put into play.

You know how in the game while playing online you can drop beacons to let your team mates know about, certain places such as tech items are located here, and certain things are happening over there, on the map.

Well in skirmish mode I really could use the same beacons for the same reasons mentioned above. My memory is like crap, and I could really use the help. It would make things so much easier. While I'm scrolling my way around the map, or following my recon vehicle/aircraft, if I see a tech structure, or some other interesting site such as a choke point, for example. Then BAM, I can becon it and move on.

It sure beats trying to remember where on the tiny little radar map that point of interst was. And usually when you think you know where it was on the radar map, but you click slightly off the mark and end up scrolling aimlessly around a couple of screens to find the point you were originally looking for. It's just maddening. The idea of beacons would resolve that issue.

That's a very interesting idea which I think is perfectly codeable , it may be very useful for inclusion in the mod, specially since the radar is vital in many situations (like identify camouflaged units on areas like large forests for example).

Tusker2Zero wrote:Yes. About that. The U.S. and the E.U. are technically allies in your "universe", sorta like Ying and Yang, yes?

So, Russia is in the mod. But who's their ally, or their Yang? Is China still in the mods mix? Or will Russia have another Yang on the axis of evil to even things up?

I like the idea of playing US & EU vs. Russia & ally on 4 (or more) player maps.

Actually, some "diplomatic accidents" will happen in TAOW's storyline and the relationship between the US and the EU will be affected, Russian relationships with the West won't be the best either, a big point of "interest" in the mod will be Ukraine and Eastern Europe.

Tusker2Zero wrote:I saw a couple of map makers do a couple of maps for ZH that had a river that split the map in two, when the time was right the water receded showing several land paths crossing the river allowing units to cross. They were fun maps. My only regret was though that they didn't include a city on each side of the "bridges", so that you could garrison a bunch of infantry inside prior to the water going down. It would have been interesting to fight through the city first before reaching your opponent, instead of just having an armor vs. armor slug fest.

That sounds pretty fun, though I think we could probably extract more "juice" from that idea (make even more use of it, know what I mean?

Tusker2Zero wrote:I've got some news for you on that front. Project Raptor version 8.0 was suppose to include a weather system that was to have effects on the battlefield. The mods creator perfected it. He made an early alpha version of Project Raptor 8.0 called PR 8.0 alpha, which included some of the mods new units, which I beta tested. The PR 8.0 beta was going to have the weather effects included in it.

Sadly, due to multiple personal reasons which I'm not going to get into, the mods creator, and sole full time modder, put the mod on to the back burner, and it is feared that the mod is gone forever. It's been quite a while now since we've heard from him.

WOW!!! I bet they had to work on that system for ages, I hope they don't cancel the mod (it would be a big shame if they let all that great potential go to waste , it's that kind of awesome ideas that give ZH extra longevity).

Tusker2Zero wrote:Anyway, I have an e-mail addy in my address book. I'll PM you the addy, either today or tomorrow, and you can try to contact him to see if you can get a hold of the coding or not.

Thanks man , though me and Marc would have to discuss the large scale inclusion of that system in TAOW in case the PR guys informed us about (to think about other coding issues for example and possible ways of adapting it to several gaming modes for example).

Tusker2Zero wrote:Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!

Jarhead wrote:I have alot to ad/refine from my first post, but right now I just want to say how glad I am you guys aren't just throwing like 5 guns on a tank, or upgrading non existant units. You guys are stuck on realism like a pit bull on a cat burgler. Love it!

Thanks man

I'd say that me and Marc will pimp slap that ZH SAGE engine (the game engine) in order to become realistic

Squadleader wrote:i have a great idea

u have to put squadleader into the infantry buildung

then they were the black glasse(like the pic in the reckler weapon)

it will be cool if they can give orders (like in bf2 with smoke grenades)

Actually, on larger and medium infantry squads, there will be an Squad Leader, taking him out will affect the rest of the team to a certain extent.

Squadleader wrote:and the soldiers must be very very realstic like the real soldier with real faces

Please check this post for extra info on that (please note that you've got to be logged in in order to view that particular page):

https://taow.forumotion.com/member-s-access-f5/the-official-infantry-topic-of-the-art-of-war-t121.htm

There will be hundreds of different soldiers, all will be different (different faces, etc.).

Damn, I was thinkin desert eagle or something and you go and get Delta force on me.! Alright I can dig that.

Does anyone like the veteran training idea? Its just like real life, but since planes are located off the board what else you going to do with a downed pilot?

One more thing, sorry about the multipule post thing, what do you guys think about allowing snipers to "garrison" trees, (greater range, hindered manueverability) (civilain building logic) and it wouldn't have to be done to conifers, special forces or not try climbing a pine tree.

snake but dont tel me if i buy solider that they come out in a squad??

Jarhead wrote:Damn, I was thinkin desert eagle or something and you go and get Delta force on me.! Alright I can dig that.

Actually, the Desert Eagle is a less than an ideal combat weapon in real life (it's a great weapon for movies and games though), the best combat handguns are generally located between the 9mm to the .45ACP range, a caliber smaller or larger than that will generally prove unsuitable on the battlefield (except with some rare exceptions).

Jarhead wrote:Does anyone like the veteran training idea? Its just like real life, but since planes are located off the board what else you going to do with a downed pilot?

Pilots will hopefully be able of being evacuated from the battlefield, and upon rescue, the player will earn a bonus.

Jarhead wrote:One more thing, sorry about the multipule post thing, what do you guys think about allowing snipers to "garrison" trees, (greater range, hindered manueverability) (civilain building logic) and it wouldn't have to be done to conifers, special forces or not try climbing a pine tree.

That sounds quite interesting , specially on larger trees though we would have to think about it (I personally think it's interesting, specially for recon and camouflage rather than long range attack).

Squadleader wrote:snake but dont tel me if i buy solider that they come out in a squad??

Soldiers will be deployed in Squads from now on. Instead of giving individual orders to an individual soldier, the player gets to control squads of infantry.

Desert Eagle<--Anti aircraft pistol (in real life!)

Gotta love the Desert Eagle, Agent Smith would be proud of us

Snake wrote:
In some cases I'd say we would like to equip pilots with automatic weapons like the MP7A1 PDW (Personal Defense Weapon) for the EU Pilots:



TAOW pilots won't be like those "pilots" from ZH (ZH pilots are as slow as a walrus, completely unrealistic). In addition to carrying PDW's, pilots are much more agile and will hopefully be able to move like standard infantry (like going prone to avoid detection) till the cavalry arrives.

I think that pilots will be ejected randomly (since not every pilot can eject sometimes, the randomizer may help on that).

I like the ideas above a lot. Thank you.

Snake wrote:

Tusker2Zero wrote:Gulp...

You mean that the Amphibious Assault Ships are only going to be in the Naval mode only?

Yeah, at least as directly controlled units, I think it may be used on some standard skirmishes, but it won't be the center of the action.

During the campaign mode, AAS's will be used in many cases (and will be very important).

At the very minimum, can we have an unlockable, directly controllable, mission modular, Littoral Combat Ship (frigate) of AAS that can deploy some marines via watercraft, and a chopper or two in skrimish mode, pwease? Pretty pwease?

Tusker2Zero wrote:

Snake wrote:
In some cases I'd say we would like to equip pilots with automatic weapons like the MP7A1 PDW (Personal Defense Weapon) for the EU Pilots:



TAOW pilots won't be like those "pilots" from ZH (ZH pilots are as slow as a walrus, completely unrealistic). In addition to carrying PDW's, pilots are much more agile and will hopefully be able to move like standard infantry (like going prone to avoid detection) till the cavalry arrives.

I think that pilots will be ejected randomly (since not every pilot can eject sometimes, the randomizer may help on that).

I like the ideas above a lot. Thank you.

Thanks , pilots without guns and slow as heck? That would be a blasphemy on the brand new TAOW environment. It's about time that the air jockeys get some hardware

Tusker2Zero wrote:

Snake wrote:

Tusker2Zero wrote:Gulp...

You mean that the Amphibious Assault Ships are only going to be in the Naval mode only?

Yeah, at least as directly controlled units, I think it may be used on some standard skirmishes, but it won't be the center of the action.

During the campaign mode, AAS's will be used in many cases (and will be very important).

At the very minimum, can we have an unlockable, directly controllable, mission modular, Littoral Combat Ship (frigate) of AAS that can deploy some marines via watercraft, and a chopper or two in skrimish mode, pwease? Pretty pwease?

Well, since we won't be using bases no more, there's always a much larger chance.
In the campaign mode you can expect a lot of "hybrid" missions (Naval and Army forces getting "alongside" a lot).

Marines will obviously appear on the campaign mode, but at this time, they'll appear as the "Naval Infantry" on the Naval Mode (the "standard missions" will have more Armyand Air Force-focused forces), that is due to the fact that we want to include many units and different vehicles.

In the Naval Mode, the "Landing Component" won't be just a 'copy paste' version of the Army Forces, that being said, we'll have unique vehicles like LAV-25's among many others.

do the inanrty got grenades???

what about c4 sattel charge and TNT for engineer?

Squadleader wrote:do the inanrty got grenades???

Yup, in addition to hand grenades, some soldiers can use underlsung grenade launchers.

Squadleader wrote:what about c4 sattel charge and TNT for engineer?

Yeah, C4 will be available, primarily for special operations (Demolitions Specialized Unit).

AND the TNT u know the red cartoon

It seems to me that the more generals points you earn, along with upgrades yeild more skilled infantry. For instance Spec Ops, I think they should be a combination of other units, like at a certain point they learn "medics abilities" and other handy tools. I've heard "no rambos" but it seems to me that you hit a ceiling of availiable options at some point. I think combinding the best skills of all units just makes the production of units more efficient. (not having to have 5 different units to do the job) Nobody want's unrealistic units. But some special operators come pretty damn close. To being "Ramboish" that is. I say put it at the top of the tech tree where units have the same or close to the same abilities of special operators. Or whatever. Just another opinion.

Squadleader wrote:AND the TNT u know the red cartoon

Well, TNT is too "classic" for use in TAOW (TNT was created around 1863 ), so we want to use more "modern" explosives.

C4 will be a great way to satisfy many of the player's "Demolition Needs"

There will be two main "versions" of C-4:
- remote detonated version (activated by the player);
- and the one which uses a timer

Basically, the charges are similar to the ones that Burton uses, only these will make a larger *bang* , and can be used on a greater variety of situations (be "inventive" on how to use them ).

Jarhead wrote:It seems to me that the more generals points you earn, along with upgrades yeild more skilled infantry. For instance Spec Ops, I think they should be a combination of other units, like at a certain point they learn "medics abilities" and other handy tools. I've heard "no rambos" but it seems to me that you hit a ceiling of availiable options at some point. I think combinding the best skills of all units just makes the production of units more efficient. (not having to have 5 different units to do the job) Nobody want's unrealistic units. But some special operators come pretty damn close. To being "Ramboish" that is. I say put it at the top of the tech tree where units have the same or close to the same abilities of special operators. Or whatever. Just another opinion.

Even though spec ops is a class which will have various roles, there won't be as many as general infantry. Spec Ops are notorious for having "exotic" (non-standardized) weaponry and equipment.

In the mod, spec ops have the best weaponry and are able to access more "specialized" tools and equipment (via upgrade). For example, some may be equipped with anti-tank weapons or anti-air weapons or multiple grenade launchers, among many others (both extra weapons and equipment).

First off I would just like to start off by saying, Chuck Norris could probably kill all of us with a roundhouse kick to the face. Second, earlier I made a post about Beret’s and metal detectors. The Beret’s current role in Afghanistan warrants the use of metal detectors… there are an estimated 2 landmines planted in the ground for every single person in the country (go figure), yet their objective is weapons caches, find weapons so they can’t be used against you later. Which who wouldn’t like to find a bunch of money or weapons? Coupled with the fact that you guys are working on “terrain effects” hidden caches would be an added bonus. But then of course C. like you guys were saying an easter egg hunt… (Metal detetors would use stealth detection like on the troop crawler, but a much smaller radius.)